Re: General Discussion Mark II

[Haar_Dragon]

Just to borrow Nebula's thing of "Original characters can't be like that," technically all characters are original characters...Goku is Akira Toriyama's Original Character. Sora is Nomura's OC. Even if someone is incredibly unoriginal, they are technically an OC.

Just thought to point that out!

Unrelated: I just played DBZ: Budokai...It has not aged well.

[PsychoticDoctor]

This is WBD XD. I actually DO have some ideas for an upbeat character...
-Always happy, basically said to her parents,"Hey, going on an adventure, so yeah. Hopfully'll be back soon"
-A guy who jokes about everything, puns at the wrong times, maybe makes some jokes that hit some wrong chords.
-More ideas later, just woke up.
Also, I thought realistically for the excommunicated since birth thing. This could play out socially or religiously. Any religion would most likley consider a person with a body of darkness a damn act of heresy(or whatever the term is). Also, everyone would either be like...
"You freak."
"Get away from me!"
"There he/she is, KILL THEM!"

[Haar_Dragon]

Well, yeah, a religious group might do that, but for one thing, how would normal people find out? Is it written on her birth certificate? Why would you actually tell people? And besides that, I can't imagine that not a single person going through her school years would have said, "Body of darkness? Cool!" I imagine a lot of guys from elementary through high school would think along those lines. I can agree that a lot of people would hurl insults, but through however many years of school, not one person thought it was cool? My suspension of disbelief just kinda walks away...though again, I wouldn't expect anyone to have found out. Please explain how it became common knowledge.

[NebulaGregarZX]

...That's kind of hilarious when you think about the Dark Bloodline. Being born with Darkness? "Yeah, whatever, we're all like that. We actually train to use it properly." Being born with brown hair? "Kill. Now." 

It makes sense in context. There's basically a prophecy that those born to the Dark Bloodline with brown hair will cause disaster to strike by turning against them. And it's happened multiple times, so it can't be disregarded as a one-time thing. Of course, that's What'sUp's territory, and he's one of the best writers on the site.

Still, does a main character have to be edgy? The big problem, the REASON we address this, is because once you see too much tragic backstory and gritty darkness and stuff, it just becomes routine and boring. We become jaded to it. Instead of feeling sympathy, we either wish the character would shut up and be happy with their current existence... or express the desire to mercy-kill them. But that's the extreme example, and we're not that far gone yet.



...Oh, yeah, responding to what you said more specifically.

Thing is, darkness is fundamental. Darkness and Light are two sides of the same coin. I question the logic of a religion that would assume that a body of darkness - that you're BORN with, at that - is evil. Society, though, would probably react like that, yeah. Still, you'd think it wouldn't be so obvious. I mean, who can sense darkness? Generally only people who fight the Heartless. Only SENSIBLE people fight the Heartless, with possibly the minor exception of a fourteen-year-old Aleri.

Anybody who would encounter a darkness-bodied being and has had experience fighting the Heartless would either be very cautious, not trying to provoke him into fighting... or would know already that dark =/= evil, and ask him how he got like that. Basically, non-aggressive, sensible reactions. I guess he just radiates darkness to the point that normal people can see it, possibly even smell it, as according to CoM, Darkness has a taste/smell?

Also! Non-tragic and overfull-happy are two different things. Balance things out, find a good middle ground, and make the extremes the LESS common character type. I could go on an endless rant about balance, but basically, stay away from the extremes unless you need to. Sway one way or the other in the spectrum a bit, but generally don't go too far. Also, it's a good idea to START with the upbeat character. Begin things on a high note, you know?

Still, if I'm being honest, I have to say that Blake has Sammy beat in terms of a semi-plausible backstory that isn't SO dark and gritty (and sh*ttily-written) that it's painful to look at. I could go on another endless rant on what not to do, FILLED with examples of how stupid Sammy was. Begin things on a high note? "Screw that, let's kill off a major character early on by turning her into a monster!" That resulted in some angst for Al, actually. Speaking of, weren't we going to work together on writing a non-sh*tty version of Sammy into WBD? I almost forgot about it!

[Haar_Dragon]

Were you? I thought the notion was "No, keep him as far away as possible." Maybe I just can't read. *shrug*

[NebulaGregarZX]

We were going to prove that, if Sammy had any sense, he could've written his story in ways that didn't make us groan constantly and eventually BAN his ass. I mean, there were so many ways it could've gone that would've been beneficial.

And that makes me think of his "Overrealm" BS, and how the first time we saw it, Emil Castagnier and Tenebrae showed up looking for Marta. That sad thing is, I eventually got ToS2, and now I'm sad that I didn't know about them sooner. And I liked the direction Admin took with the Overrealm once he assumed control. He made it clear that the place was F***ED UP. I mean, sure, being there at all made Rexial vomit, and the explanation given was that the twisted-from-constant-exploitation of aura - which is what LIFE radiates, therefore making LIFE ITSELF in the Overrealm twisted - was something he couldn't get over. But he was the only one affected by that, for some reason.

[Haar_Dragon]

I believe the logical explanation is that Rexial is a being made from pure darkness given form, and as such he is more sensitive to things like that. I think we were all meant to associate Aura with Light in some small capacity, but thinking too much about it is making my brain hurt, so... "because he's Rexial" it is. In my mind anyway.

[Cremator of the Sky]

Hm? What's this? a discussion on Darkness and Light?

https://youtu.be/rLa5c7swv7g

With that obligation taken care of...

That sad thing is, I eventually got ToS2, and now I'm sad that I didn't know about them sooner.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, slow down... There were people that liked ToS2?

https://i.imgur.com/TrzRx.gif

[Malakili007]

ho....hold the phone there....there were people who DIDN'T?

[Admin (HalcyonWandering)]

Yeah, we were supposed to do that but we haven't moved far enough into WBD for it to matter yet. Of course, that's kinda my fault. But, I digress. Shoot me a PM and we can work on that.

[Cremator of the Sky]

ho....hold the phone there....there were people who DIDN'T?

 Absolutely.

The minute I found out the cast from the previous game (read as: everyone worth a damn)  were Guest Party Members and that Kratos wasn't in... Well, I'll have this do the talking for me.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/332/515/6a0.gif

[NebulaGregarZX]

Kratos was in a secret cutscene, actually. Well, sort of. It's not like Emil could talk to him, but he was talking to Yuan over videophonefromspace. And he had his original VA.
 
It was a nice game, I liked it, until I found Tales of the Abyss, which was much better. Still, while ToS2 isn't great, it's not really all that bad. It's not up to Tales standards, but it actually beats a lot of today's-market trash. I thought it was cool when I first started playing, it just didn't open up as much as I thought it would over time, and I'm not fond of systems that make you train monsters to fight alongside your human characters... Still, I intend on finishing the game, at least.
 
Long story short, I LIKE ToS2. I understand, though, that it's not as good as the other Tales games. Not nearly. But I consider that more a compliment to the awesomeness of Tales than a mark of shame to ToS2! The biggest problem is that it's not half as good as ToS. It's the COMPARISON that makes it bad. The one thing ToS2 has up on Abyss and ToS, though, is that it actually had dubbed skits. And it DID make some neat references to Tales of Phantasia, like the world map theme, and one skit discussing time travel.

Plus, they were busy making Vesperia at the time, so Symphonia 2 got shafted in terms of time and budget. The creators actually expressed regret at not being able to put in as much as they wanted.

And apparently, Emil and Marta were good enough to show up in Tales of Heroes, so clearly, Namco isn't going to let perfectly good characters go to waste. Especially considering that Emil actually has a pretty neat design, if unorthodox for the Tales series.

[Cremator of the Sky]

To be fair, it is kind of hard to make a good sequel to a really good RPG. But first off, let's be honest here NGZX, you don't mind if I call you that, do you? Nearly anything made five to six years ago beats anything coming out today (with some exceptions because good games are still being made, you just need to look harder), it's not that hard really. But anyway...

I forgot ToS2 didn't have all of the original cast returning, so that's another point against it in my book, I like VA consistency okay? That and the ToS cast were spot on. Dubbed skits, while nice, just can't make up for what the game does. Also, references to other Tales games are nice, but again, same deal as the dubbed skits.

If anything, I'm glad they focused on Vesperia. Because Vesperia is absolutely awesome and I shouldn't have to elaborate upon it. If anything, I do kind of wish they could have thrown ToS2 on the backburner until ToV was done. I find nothing sadder than a game suffering due to executive meddling, even if it resulted in an awesome game being made while an okay game was.

[NebulaGregarZX]

Oh, I KNOW there are good RPGs still coming out. It's just that, in general... a lot of games these days a kinda trashy.

Yeah, I won't argue that ToS2 is really all that great. However, my base argument is that I LIKE it, even if I prefer Abyss. I can't get my hands on ToS1 yet, and I haven't seen a copy of Vesperia, so it's just those two Tales games in my collection right now.

And about dubbed skits... it really irks me that they weren't dubbed before. Seriously. I see their lips moving, there are subtitles, I know that the Japanese version got them voiced, but... having them silent just PAINS me. I'd even take the Japanese voice acting, just let me hear their voices! In a game where the majority of the cutscenes are voice-acted, having skits that are meant to be VA'd - but are SILENT - is just way too jarring. It's not just 'nice', I gotta say, that's kind of a big deal. Like VA consistency for you.

...And for the record, if I got away with calling you "Crem", I think you can get away with "NGZX". Besides, that's the designation for some of my files... it's shorthand for my username, but it doesn't really feel like a nickname. It's a bit mechanical, even for my tastes, but keep calling me that, if you want.

[Malakili007]

Hee hee I love when my simple jokes cause debates.

For the record, I have not actually played ToS2 (or ToS for that matter, not for lack of wanting to by the way), I was merely overstating the contradictory to make this point. V

For every game, there WILL be people who LIKE it, and there WILL be people who DON'T, even if it's only ONE, even if that one is ONLY me.

[NebulaGregarZX]

Ah, I THOUGHT something was odd about that. You didn't seem like the kind of person who would like ToS2, Mala. I mostly feel attached because it was my first Tales game ever, and I thought it was awesome before I came to understand that it's an escort title with minimal resources and severely downgraded features. A Mystic Arte extension that costs an extra 50 TP to use should NOT be weaker than the normal Mystic Arte! And Cooking is for people, not monsters! And sidequests are supposed to be quests that aren't on the main story path, not little side-missions you can choose to do constantly from a job board!

I have problems with it, but I still intend on finishing it at least once. Then I'll make sure I beat Abyss at least once before researching the others more deeply to decide which one to go after next. Symphonia and Vesperia are top on my list, though I like the look of Graces, Innocence, and Eternia.

[Malakili007]

Fair enough point Neb, but I'm weird. Most people assume that being the Suikoden fan I am I don't like 4, however I do.

Do I agree that its the worst suikoden game? NO. Is it the weakest in the series though? Yea I can see that. But I still ENJOYED it. And that's what it all comes down to.

As for ToS2 I shall reserve judgement for that until I have ACTUALLY played it.

[Cremator of the Sky]

Well, there's something you need to take into account NGZX. Voice clips take up a lot of space. From actual sentences to pained grunts, they honestly can get pretty huge. So thus, the skits were left undubbed if anything to conserve space for the other portions of the game. It's something I don't mind if done or not, but I can see where your coming from on the matter.

Also, my apologies, I kind of got a tad carried away. If it makes you feel better, you could be like me and love Persona 1 the most out of all the current Persona games. Seriously. That game has not aged well at all, and yet I love, nearly, everything about it.

Hee hee I love when my simple jokes cause debates.

Well played sir, well played.

And that point of Suikoden reminds me I have to finish 2 at some point soon.

[Malakili007]

Unfortunately for me 2 is one of the two Suikoden games I don't own, the other is Tactics.

And it all comes back to the original point i was making every game is going to have those who like it and those who don't.

[NebulaGregarZX]

Well, thing is, those skits were DUBBED in the original Japenese version! That space being freed up wasn't going to be used for anything except maybe for some of the minor changes we got in the US version. And then, when Japan got the extra stuff WE got (via the 3DS version), their version kept the dubbed skits. However, we did not get any such skits. Ergo, space wasn't an issue here. I think the issue was that they didn't want to have to re-sync the lip movements and timing, or didn't want to spend so much time dubbing all those lines.

...So yeah, that's really just to prove that I DID take space constraints into account. Ah, well.

The original Persona? Does the PSP remake count? I haven't seen the whole thing - haven't even got a copy - so I can't really give it my judgment. Persona 2, I've heard, is pretty good, but I don't have either of them. Persona 3 is pretty awesome, but I'm stuck with the Portable version. Not a bad deal; I trade the ability to walk around normally for the ability to warp everywhere (like P4), learning new Tactic settings as I take down bosses for the ability to control party members with Direct Commands (again, like Persona 4), and the older mechanics for a number of re-balanced mechanics. Plus, I trade seeing the models of the characters acting out the cutscenes for the Female route and more Visual Novel-style story.

Of course, I find the Beginner mode borderline offensive. Why is there an easier mode than Easy? And why does it give you THIRTY continue items? Nobody should need that many, and if they do... well, they'd better not go up a difficulty level, then. The NORMAL Easy mode makes Full Moon bosses kind of easy to kill - especially with Direct Commands - so I can only IMAGINE how easy it is on Beginner.

Persona 4 is pretty awesome. It's not as awesome as Persona 3, but it's a lot brighter and less grim. Also, damage numbers are a lot lower. I haven't even hit endgame in P3P yet, and I'm doing more damage than my True Endgame party in P4. Though that may be because I am NOT a min/max-er who excels at Fusion, and Persona 3 just offers more opportunities to get overpowered stuff. I dunno, having Siegfried with Vorpal Blade seems to break the game, right now! 500 Slash damage to all enemies if I'm feeling Great? And I can get into Great condition just by sleeping in the day before going to Tartarus? Hell yeah!

...Why am I ranting about this? Oh, right, pointing out that I can't judge Persona 1 & 2, but I can say that 3 & 4 kick ass. Still, they're wildly different. From what I've seen of 1 & 2, they would probably get on my nerves, with the whole Random Encounter thing in effect. I'm used to seeing my enemies ahead of time, in Persona games, and deciding whether to try and sneak up, take them head-on, or just avoid them. And I haven't gotten to the points in those games where I get to see a lot of major character development.

Oh! That reminds me. It may be in the original P3, but P3P lets you examine the TV in the dorm, and you can "watch" a little bit of what's on. Sometimes, you'll hear somebody named Trish interviewing or pointing out certain people. One such person is described as wearing clothing with a distinctive "#1!" on them. And, usually, Trish finishes her reports with "Pain, pain, go away!" Yeah. Bob, were those references in the original P3 or Fes?

[Haar_Dragon]

Honestly, I felt P3 was significantly easier than P4, and yes, Beginner is kinda pathetic. If you need thirty continues, then you need to play a different game. If you need three continues...meh, I could use three continues sometimes. But if you need more than ten...You should stop playing Persona.

And regarding the thing about every game having people who like it and people who don't, that's perfectly fine. Hell, I'm the only person I've ever met who has not felt any rage against Sonic '06. Is it good? Eh, no. Is it bad? Eh. Is it a waste of time? Absolutely, but for whatever reason I don't hate it. Hell, I enjoyed Shadow. And I also recognize that some...or pretty much all of my favorite games are not for everyone, and when someone comments that they didn't like it, I just say, "Eh, that's you."

POINT BEING, 007's point about games? Kinda a given. Ask anyone who has picked up a video game and they will have had a difference of opinion with someone regarding it.

[khfreak358]

So, I just got back from Pacific Rim.

Movie. Of. The year.

[Admin (HalcyonWandering)]

Just got a 3ds and Fire Emblem Awakening. In short, I fucking love this game.

[Cremator of the Sky]

Hey, you know what would go good with that 3DS? Project X Zone.

You know what would be even better? SMTIV.

Of course, that's just me.

[PsychoticDoctor]

I sold my 3DS. Then FE:A and AC:NL came out...

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